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Really? It ...Only 5% of rape accusations are false? Really? It is difficult to prove the exact figure but there has been growing evidence that at least 40%, probably more, of all rape accusations are false. Presumably the crime agency would have a vested interest in serving prosecutors and therefore downplay the extent of false accusations. <BR/><BR/>During the 1990s sociologist Eugene Kanin published studies showing that the percentage of false accusations is much higher. This is the same Eugene Kanin who during the 1950s and 1960s published studies claiming that male sexual aggression was quite common. It is unlikely that someone coming from that perspective would make such claims about false accusations if they weren't true. <BR/><BR/>The reason why false accusations of rape are probably proportionately higher than the proportion of false accusations for other crimes is precisely because of the emotive nature of many sexual encounters. You don't get that many cases where people trade away goods and then file a false claim that the purchaser stole them. However, you do get cases where women agree to have sex and then claim rape out of regret, to cover up for an affair, to punish a man for rejecting her etc. etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11306845.post-78171073771931601442007-03-20T06:56:00.000-04:002007-03-20T06:56:00.000-04:00That last comment is reductionist to the point of ...That last comment is reductionist to the point of ridiculous. Fact: studies by credible US crime agencies Have been done and show rape is falsely reported to the same extent as other crimes - about 5% of the time. Soem outlyers may define rape as unenjoyable sex, but I doubt that definition would console the more than 3,500 people who call the Boston area rape crisis hotline every year.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11306845.post-78791708525961264392007-02-22T09:29:00.000-05:002007-02-22T09:29:00.000-05:00What is the point of this discussion about rape?Wh...What is the point of this discussion about rape?Where a man<BR/>might see a rape as being a sexual assault some women see all intercourse as being rape and this is where the disparities occur.<BR/>Truth to say if rape is defined as <BR/>being intercourse that wasn't enjoyed by one of the parties then I have been raped quite a few times,and I'm male.<BR/>A real law is one where the trangressor is aware that he/she is doing wrong,not some half baked idea that someones feelings have<BR/>just been walked on therefore there should be retribution in the form of the law.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11306845.post-8729411369703271162007-02-19T23:14:00.000-05:002007-02-19T23:14:00.000-05:00Cathy, I will try to abide by your civility code f...Cathy, <BR/><BR/>I will try to abide by your civility code from now on. However, I would like to respond to some of your defence of Jess. <BR/><BR/>“And I do think Jess makes an excellent point that replacing feminist rhetoric about evil and brutal men with "masculist" rhetoric about evil and devious women is hardly an improvement.”<BR/>Even if this argument had merit on its own, it is hard to swallow coming from someone who makes wild claims such as that nearly every woman she has ever known has been the victim of serious sexual abuse from men. Jess clearly doesn’t want to replace feminist rhetoric about evil and brutal men with anything else, period. She wants to retain that rhetoric, albeit with a few token concessions. I should also point out that I never made the same generalisations and exaggerations about women’s wickedness that Jess makes about men’s wickedness. For example, I never claimed that nearly every man I have ever known has been the victim of serious abuse by women. Yet Jess gets the credit for being conciliatory and acting in good faith! Incredible. I don’t see how misrepresenting the views of others or holding on to discredited feminist myths constitutes acting in good faith or building bridges.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11306845.post-1171570507405745932007-02-15T15:15:00.000-05:002007-02-15T15:15:00.000-05:00Alas, I believe there are some major "facts" left ...Alas, I believe there are some major "facts" left out of the public discourse on the Duke staudents and Brother Nyfong.<BR/>Major missing fact = why were the two black females at the party, in the first place?<BR/>The answer maybe found in my mispent youth. The best entertainment at bachelor or stag parties is, you got it, sleazy females.<BR/>The well-to-do older brothers of a good friend of mine threw him a bachelor party at a road-house on the Jersey side of the GW bridge. They had hired a couple of very attractive, young black women, who arrived at the road-house, I recall vividly, in a brand new Cadilac convertible with the top down.<BR/>The girls had been well paid to do each other for a fixed period of time and then take on any or all of the guys, each for a fixed fee. After the show, the girls solicited volunteers, but none came forward. There was some discussion, the girls put on their clothes and left in a huff, really pissed that they had wasted their time for such meager revenue.<BR/>I believe this is the kind of story the Nyfong got at the outset and that made him so indignant. But, after the initial story, his facts disolved. The pimp that was hired to supply the girls would have claimed he didn't know what they were talking about. It may well be that no one at the Duke party actually touched either girl after the show and that the claim of rape was really a complaint about no cash.<BR/>Think about it. Why would an experienced guy like Nyfong do such irrational things? He didn't; the were rational in the context of his original fact construct. <BR/>Who would dare call two black hookers, well, hookers? Again, think about my initial questions; why were these two black women at a Duke students' party, what were the arrangements and was there any other person (the pimp) involved?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11306845.post-1171545681771287042007-02-15T08:21:00.000-05:002007-02-15T08:21:00.000-05:00Guys, I haven't been policing the comments section...Guys, I haven't been policing the comments section much, but can we please have a little more civility here and not refer to other posters' comments as "hysterical drivel"? One may agree or disagree with certain portions of Jess's post but I see a good-faith effort on her part to build bridges and have some dialogue, and verbal attacks aren't really conducive to that. And I do think Jess makes an excellent point that replacing feminist rhetoric about evil and brutal men with "masculist" rhetoric about evil and devious women is hardly an improvement.Cathy Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09688616617444359647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11306845.post-1171519505665381672007-02-15T01:05:00.000-05:002007-02-15T01:05:00.000-05:00Jess, First of all I never actually accused you of...Jess, <BR/><BR/>First of all I never actually accused you of condoning false accusations. However, there is a clear implication in much of your thread that men are at least partly to blame for false accusations. <BR/><BR/>Much of the rest of your post is hysterical drivel. You accuse me of misrepresenting your views, and yet you misrepresent my views almost beyond recognition. <BR/><BR/>“How do you know what women are lying or what men are sexual predators? None of us are ever going to know that. I can only speak from my own experience, and from the experience of women I know and trust to be honest about such things. Same for you.”<BR/>It’s a bit rich for you to criticise me for supposedly making judgements about these cases without knowing all the facts, while you are all too willing to simply believe any woman’s story without knowing any of the other facts or evidence. Of course I never claimed to know whether each individual woman is lying or not, or whether each individual man is a sexual predator. There’s a huge difference between judging individual cases and making overall judgements about the proportion of cases that are likely to be true or false. I simply believe that a large proportion of rape claims are false, because a) there is growing evidence of the number of false claims and of men who have been falsely convicted, and b) because I believe there is less disincentive for women to refrain from false accusations because they are rarely punished for them. This is known as making an educated judgement based on available information. <BR/><BR/>“My point, as you would know if you chose to read more carefully, is that replacing women's sense of victimhood and hostility towards evil men, with men's sense of victimhood and hostility towards evil women is hardly an improvement. We need to get past that.”<BR/>It is rather hypocritical of you to lecture men about how they shouldn’t play the victim, while at the same time you are happy to offer up exaggerated and unsubstantiated accounts of how much women are victimised (like saying that every woman you met has been a victim of serious sexual abuse by men). <BR/><BR/>"If you care about justice for men, and men being given the benefit of the doubt, then do the same for women."<BR/>If you are referring to the burden of proof in criminal cases, then of course I believe in the same for women. Where did I suggest otherwise? If a woman is accused of making a false accusation, and prosecuted for it, then she should only be convicted if it is proven beyond reasonable doubt. If, on the other hand, you are trying to draw some parallel between the rights of men accused of crimes and some supposed right of women who make accusations to be believed, then you are very confused indeed. <BR/><BR/>“If you want women to have some understanding and support for your situation, you need to have some for theirs. And vice versa.”<BR/>It is disingenuous for you to turn that argument back on me. The fact is that you initiated that point by complaining that men are not sympathetic enough to womens suffering. Of course respect and understanding is a two-way street. But how much understanding men or women are entitled to all depends on your view about which sex is actually more oppressed. Given the fact that relatively few women have seemed to care about the injustices infliected on men during the feminist era, how much understanding and support should women expect in return?<BR/><BR/>“My point was that if Mike (and others) feel that much outrage and resentment over one bad experience, how much outrage do you suppose many women feel over multiple bad experiences?”<BR/>This is a loaded question. The point is that I (we) don’t accept the argument that women generally have more bad experiences than men. The outrage and resentment that Mike and others feel generally doesn’t stem solely from one incident. It stems from the broader social environment that surrounds issues like this. It stems from the fact that it is difficult for men to talk about issues like false rape claims without being marginalised and branded misogynists. It stems from the fact that, up until now, there have been virtually no outlets for men to deal with these issues. It is understandable that when men have been forced to suppress their grievances, anger and resentment grows. The same is not true for women. There have long been vast numbers of organisations representing women on this and a whole range of issues.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11306845.post-1171225021847654202007-02-11T15:17:00.000-05:002007-02-11T15:17:00.000-05:00I recall a comment by Rosalind Wiseman, speaking o...I recall a comment by Rosalind Wiseman, speaking of teenagers:<BR/><I><BR/>As I’ve mentioned, girls don’t like admitting it, but most are really bad at saying “no” clearly….As a result a girl will often say “no” while she is still kissing him or [various other mixed messages].</I><BR/><BR/>Her point was that if you say “no” badly enough, it can sound like “yes”. Especially to someone hoping to here “yes”.<BR/><BR/>When you consider also the tendency of every persons memory to remember whatever makes that person look good to him/herself, there must be a great many cases where the people involved genuinely have completely different memories about what happened.<BR/><BR/>This suggests that this is a case where prevention beforehand is worth a lot more than retribution afterwards.<BR/><BR/>Ms Wiseman wrote of training her students to think ahead. And if necessary to say:<BR/><BR/>“No, I do not want to have sex”, “No, you have to stop trying to persuade me to have sex”, and if all else fails: “If we have sex now, I will consider this rape”.<BR/><BR/>She claimed that the boys in her classes were happy about this. As long as they <I>know</I>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11306845.post-1171180190362258142007-02-11T02:49:00.000-05:002007-02-11T02:49:00.000-05:00Nick,WTF? Go back and read my post more carefully....Nick,<BR/><BR/>WTF? Go back and read my post more carefully. As I said quite explicitly, I do not condone false accusations, and maybe I need to be even more explicit and state that I do not condone false accusations from MEN OR WOMEN. How do you know what women are lying or what men are sexual predators? None of us are ever going to know that. I can only speak from my own experience, and from the experience of women I know and trust to be honest about such things. Same for you. <BR/><BR/>My point, as you would know if you chose to read more carefully, is that replacing women's sense of victimhood and hostility towards evil men, with men's sense of victimhood and hostility towards evil women is hardly an improvement. We need to get past that. If you want women to have some understanding and support for your situation, you need to have some for theirs. And vice versa. If you care about justice for men, and men being given the benefit of the doubt, then do the same for women.<BR/><BR/>Is that clear enough for you?<BR/><BR/>And by the way, I've made my peace with my experiences--I really don't think of myself as a victim. My point was that if Mike (and others) feel that much outrage and resentment over one bad experience, how much outrage do you suppose many women feel over multiple bad experiences? I'm not proposing a contest here--just a little more empathy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11306845.post-1171165558855280652007-02-10T22:45:00.000-05:002007-02-10T22:45:00.000-05:00Jess, you have just given us a whole lot of unsubs...Jess, you have just given us a whole lot of unsubstantiated, anecdotal and hyperbolical claims about how men are systematically victimising women throughout society. It doesn't seem to matter how much evidence emerges of injustices committed against men, how many claims of female victimisation are discredited, the moral is that women are always more hardly done by. Why? Because you say so. <BR/><BR/>I think it's funny the way people imply that men who are falsely accused are somehow partly to blame for this. There are eery parallels of 'blaming the victim' here. <BR/><BR/>One of the problems that is amply illustrated is the way that many women have emotionally invested so much in playing the victim that they simply can't deal with the fact that women are actually more victimisers than victims in our era of state-enforced feminism.<BR/><BR/>You say that men need to become more considerate of women's suffering, and not just dismiss women who claim to have been mistreated as whiners or liars. Given the number of false and misleading claims that have been used to advance women's interests (on a whole range of issues), it's only understandable that men become more cynical about women who claim to have been mistreated. If anything, I think women could learn to be more understanding of the difficulties of being a male in a feminist era.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11306845.post-1170980467453107112007-02-08T19:21:00.000-05:002007-02-08T19:21:00.000-05:00MikeT,While I sympathize with your situation, I wo...MikeT,<BR/><BR/>While I sympathize with your situation, I would like to point out that you're a part of the problem if you draw your conclusions and set them in stone based on your own personal bad experience. I have had a large number of frightening, revolting, and even violent encounters with men who have allowed themselves to cross the line into sexual predation--to what degree should I judge all men based on my experiences? Some of these acts were done by men who seemed like nice, normal guys--men I considered friends, even--who unexpectedly turned into Mr. Hyde under the influence of alcohol and anger. Sadly, my experiences are quite common; I know very few women who have NOT been seriously harrassed (I'm not talking about a few off-color remarks, here), molested or assaulted. Based on your own responses to your bad experience, what do you imagine happens to all the rage and frustration in such cases? What do you think comes out of the fear that these experiences create?<BR/><BR/>I'm not condoning false accusations. But just as I think it's important for women to identify and condemn men who are truly a danger, and not let that spill over onto men who are not, I think it's important for men to do the same vis-a-vis women. I also wish men would make more of an effort to understand the ugliness that is too often inflicted on women, and not immediately dismiss it as whining or lies. Some of it is (true in any conflict), but a large proportion of it is not. In return, I agree that women should dedicate themselves to the cause of justice and mutual respect, not to the interests of just one gender. But men should too. Including you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11306845.post-1170357685144168092007-02-01T14:21:00.000-05:002007-02-01T14:21:00.000-05:00MikeT,I wa srtangentially involved with a similar ...MikeT,<BR/><BR/>I wa srtangentially involved with a similar case. A woman I knew in the National Guard told me a year or tow after the "fact" that a man in our same unit whom she had been dating had raped her. I asked about the results of the exam. She said there had been none, becuase he had worn a condom. I said I had no idea he was that nimble.<BR/><BR/>Perhpas a year or two later a detective from the Sheriff's Dept. contacted me for a statement because I had been mentioned. I repeted the conversation the soldier and I had had. The detective was female. Her whole tone was completley sceptical of the accusation, perhaps because she had handled enough real rape cases. Last I heard of it.<BR/><BR/>Then many years later I ran into the male soldier, who turns out to be having problems getting his clearance updated. Imagine that. In his case it affects his livelihood.<BR/><BR/>Back to the detective. I never spoke to her in any depth, but I wonder to what extent she resented this accusation for the discrediting effect it might have on real accusations. In this case, she headed off that result. <BR/><BR/>Cathy, Bob was out of line. But the really issue is not that his attitude is wrong, but that it might be becoming common. That is a danger. When women like you speak up like this, that is a rememdy. But there need to be effective legal penalties for false accusations that discredti real victims.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11306845.post-1170353266035009682007-02-01T13:07:00.000-05:002007-02-01T13:07:00.000-05:00Bob: The only reason I am not deleting this vile t...Bob: The only reason I am not deleting this vile tripe is as a reminder to us critics of feminism that misogyny is not merely a feminist myth. Do me a favor, though, and do not show up on this blog again.Cathy Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09688616617444359647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11306845.post-1170351979328744462007-02-01T12:46:00.000-05:002007-02-01T12:46:00.000-05:00The faux-crime of "rape" is hardly a crime at all....The faux-crime of "rape" is hardly a crime at all. "Rape" is feminazi hate hysteria, a bomb lobbed squarly at destroying men, and as many men as possible. The faux-crime of "rape" is the most lied about of all "crimes." It would be surprising if 8% of female rape-hate whines had any truth at all. Even for actual rape the crime breaks no bones nor empties anyones purse. In the few cases of actual rape that do occure the only damage amounts to her hurt feelings because her assumed total domination of men and sex was disrupted and the man decided this time. In the very small percentage of rape-hate accusations that have any truth at all a penalty equal to overtime parking, about the price of sex on the street, would be all that is appropriate or fair. Hate is not how to run a free nation, not even if its rape-hate. <BR/>Bob<BR/><BR/>Catch more of The World according to Bob at: http://bobstruth.blogspot.com/Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09326495837644127734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11306845.post-1170346899054728182007-02-01T11:21:00.000-05:002007-02-01T11:21:00.000-05:00Feminists largely don't care what it does to men w...Feminists largely don't care what it does to men when they are falsely accused and see others falsely accused. I've been falsely accused of rape when I didn't even have sex with the accuser! I didn't even know about the rumors because it was so close to graduation until 2-2.5 years later a girl I started dating met a girl who knew the rumor and had actually helped spread it. Fortunately for me, the girl grew up around tougher people and actually knew some things about what a real rape would be like (thus the accuser's story fell apart).<BR/><BR/>And now I flat out don't believe a woman was raped unless she can look me in the eye and say she was coerced with real force, not emotional coercion of the "if you love me" variety. I won't even give a woman the benefit of the doubt if she's intoxicated because of other regret-based claims I heard of in college.<BR/><BR/>All the while they come up with stupid responses on mainstream feminist sites like Pandagon like, "we need to teach men to stop raping!" Gee, I must have missed that moral lesson, you know, the one where rape was passed off as a little indiscression. The way that mainstream feminists approach dealing with rape is guaranteed to make more victims out of innocent men, make more men suspicious of rape claims and not do a damn thing to stop actual rapists.<BR/><BR/>But then, they don't care about these things. It's a way to deflect criticism from them of their personal failures. The fact that they refuse to acknowledge any substantial cultural differences between America today and America as of 1950 speaks volumes to that effect. "Women have won," and have lost. Fewer men want to marry American men, fewer men even trust them to have a serious relationship, and things like this cult of female victimhood and male oppression are why.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11306845.post-1170284519400497442007-01-31T18:01:00.000-05:002007-01-31T18:01:00.000-05:00"It's very weird. "It's very Georgia. Defending fr..."It's very weird. "<BR/><BR/>It's very Georgia. Defending frail females is a bedrock principle of Southern patriarchy and by extension also of gender or misogyny feminism.<BR/><BR/>The girl was very likely committing prostitution, and a lot of these laws are in place to obscure that aspect of these situations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11306845.post-1170204695132858792007-01-30T19:51:00.000-05:002007-01-30T19:51:00.000-05:00Not just "lack of consent", but lack of *informed*...Not just "lack of consent", but lack of *informed* consent. Thus, if a drunk man a drunk woman have sex, the man is a rapist under the law because the woman was incapable of giving "informed consent" due to her incapacitation. But the man is supposed to exercise restraint despite his incapacitation. This is the classic double standard.<BR/><BR/>Off-topic a bit, the case of Genarlow Wilson on Georgia is interesting. Wilson, at age 17, was at a party where a 15-year-old girl was performing oral sex to all comers, of which Wilson was one. The exploits are on video tape, so there's no doubt it happened and that the young woman was the aggressor. The age of consent in Georgia is 16, so Wilson committed statutory rape by allowing the girl to go down on him. If they'd had intercourse, the rape would be a misdemeanor because the age difference is less than 3 years. But for oral sex, it's a felony carrying a ten year prison sentence, no possibility of parole.<BR/><BR/>The Georgia law is insane and has since been amended, but not retroactively. Wilson is black, and that may account for the lack of attention to his case vs. the Duke non-rape rape case. <BR/><BR/>It's very weird.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com